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Michael Brooks & Saagar Enjeti Debate China: Socialist vs. Nationalist Approaches (TMBS 109)



Saagar Enjeti joins us for a friendly debate on China & Nationalism vs. Socialism.

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Paul Page
Paul Page
8 months ago

Bernie Sanders 2020

Paul Page
Paul Page
8 months ago

The electorate today is not political left vs political right anymore. The electorate is the angry pissed off populous majority vs the Neoliberal corporate globalist capitalist elites and the establishment

Christian Reimann
Christian Reimann
8 months ago

Quick point: Germany is not a reliable ally 22:20?
The US is going to war in the middle east, creating one refugee crisis after the other, pulling out of international agreements (Paris), is abandoning the Iran deal (in which Europe is also a part) — but it's Europe that is not reliable??
The US is notorious for being unreliable and not consulting with their allies!

Jay R
Jay R
8 months ago

We need more debates like this.

varun reddy Mothe
varun reddy Mothe
8 months ago

China is gonna destroy so many economies with one belt one road initiatives. Americans don’t know Jack shit about it. It has border issues with every one of its neighbours.learn how it captured a port in Sri Lanka by giving loans at very high interest rates. America lost in Afghanistan because it started there by joining the hands with the state sponsor of terror Pakistan.

John Smith
John Smith
8 months ago

I think Sagaar would agree with Hillary Clinton’s monumental speech where she said: “America is Good because America is great”. This is the stupid circular argument that these guys have to first reject if they want to be taken seriously.

John Smith
John Smith
8 months ago

A summary of Sagaar’s political ideology: “America Gooood, China Eeeevil, yeah,,,,USA, USA”

This moron has no idea how loaded his premises are, result of all the nationalist brainwashing.

Reminds me of when a religious nut thinks whatever his religion does is good and everything other people do is bad. A logically bankrupt argument.

Anton Shields
Anton Shields
8 months ago

It’s really hard to quantify the amount of influence china has on our infrastructure at the same time critique it well enough to have decent working model of China’s economy be implemented in some form in the US. What I find fascinating is the level of concern that we have now about China’s influence when so many other real and tangible events have taken place that should have alarmed us a while ago. China buying large portions of our debt and china basically dissolving intellectual property rights by making American companies in China capitulate or they have to leave. And… Read more »

yan yan
yan yan
8 months ago

if you dont see the logic of lenins analysis of imperialism and all the evidence supporting this thesis, you’re never going to make sense of any communist party whether chinese or american or british or whatever. imperialism doesnt mean empire, its supposedly the nature of capitalism, democratic or not, and thats what communists are against doing anything against it. they dont really think in terms of capitalist liberal leftist socialist terms like Gini, safety net, redistribution, all these technocratic nuances, they start with self determination and validating and coordinating the wants of the masses (usually very culturally unique as localized… Read more »

Jochen Spalding
Jochen Spalding
8 months ago

Red scare all over again. When Americans can't scapegoat they can't breathe, eh?

Joe Chai
Joe Chai
8 months ago

America and China share a common thread – love of money and power. Both will compete with each other to see who can destroy the world fastest and the best.

Lighter Fluid15
Lighter Fluid15
8 months ago

Great debate, I wish more were like that on the internet but we get a lot of talking points where we can't see each other as having valid points. I side with Michael but Saagar made some good points.

leon scott
leon scott
8 months ago

In a serious world. This would be the true left and right.

toto now
toto now
8 months ago

Saagar there's just one problem. The powers you are talking about are functioning between and for themselves and we (you included) are not part of it in their calculations. I really believe based on what we can see on a practical level they say we are included and it's for national causes but that's all a mirage. You still think they are thinking of you and people you know but those powers you want to promote and see "win" do and will betray and desert us without a second thought. You are not in their club. I am very happy… Read more »

Hubert Busby
Hubert Busby
8 months ago

black people are not free in america.

Hubert Busby
Hubert Busby
8 months ago

america has done the same in other countries. that is how america became great.

Phil Lembo
Phil Lembo
8 months ago

Both South Korea and Japan are full-on oligarchies like the US. There's very little wiggle room for genuine democracy in either. Saagar's major blindspot is his acceptance of American Exceptionalism as an existential truth. It sadly warps much of his foreign policy analysis, and a good deal of how he thinks about domestic policy, particularly economic, as well.

MamaMysteriouspgh
MamaMysteriouspgh
8 months ago

That was awesome… Saagar is dead wrong, but I like the conversation.

Axolotl
Axolotl
8 months ago

7:44 I hope you're not seriously trying to suggest that "redistributive policies" were what actually contributed to lifting millions of Chinese people out of poverty, and not the market and trade reforms introduced by Deng Xiaoping in the 1970s (as a response to the disaster that was the Mao-era socialism of agricultural collectivization and forced land redistribution) that spearheaded the economic liberalization of China.

Danko Kovačević
Danko Kovačević
8 months ago

If you Americans think you are entitled to be a supreme race, to dictate your will (and we all know what happened since USSR dissolved 1989.-1991. WAR AFTER WAR AFTER WAR; INVASION AFTER INVASION, 2008. FINANCIAL CRISIS THAT BROUGHT US SO MUCH MISERY ALL AROUND THE WORLD CRISIS THAT WAS NEVER FIXED, JUST SWEPT UNDER THE RUG; HUGE IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE CRISIS THAT ARE DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR FOREIGN REGIME CHANGE WARS, and consequence of all that is rise of populism that is almost always used by the right wing, except in 1917. and even then right wing of communist… Read more »

Robert Welch
Robert Welch
8 months ago

"what Bannon and I think" aaand you'e done.

Harry Ortiz
Harry Ortiz
8 months ago

I agree with a lot of what Saagar has to say but it is interesting that the differences between us are clearly based on opposing ideological viewpoints.

Ward Media & Entertainment
Ward Media & Entertainment
8 months ago

Sagaars main misunderstanding: China's rise is not due to our mistakes. China's rise is happening and barring WW3 there's no stopping that.

There's no reason we should either unless our essential argument that competition is good has always been a lie….

Jeminai
Jeminai
8 months ago

then china starts mining asteroids and America is fucked.

Ward Media & Entertainment
Ward Media & Entertainment
8 months ago

Tactical argument: China is not going away. Bottomline Moral argument: the US has 0 moral authority as the country who's economy was created with slavery and abuse of it's neighbors, maintains it's power by violating human rights and exporting death and destruction far and wide via military on MANY occasions has done the same things discussed here or MUCH WORSE Stratrgic argument: the US wants to be the only gorilla in the room, extorting everyone else like it used to be. Sagaar's complaints about China doing X or Y really fall flat because of the obvious situation. The US wants… Read more »

sueco13 sueco13
sueco13 sueco13
8 months ago

lol we must love this guy.america are sanction companys and countrys(with that, killing business and people)and this guys talking about american "free speech" rights.it seems rights and power is for united states only.get out of your bubble sir.

Bill Kort
Bill Kort
8 months ago

Two people defending counter ideologies without exchanging ad homonyms. How novel! Thank you Michael and Saagar. A couple comments on China vs US. The concern that if China dominates the world economically it would be an imperialist nation is a particular Western bias which assumes that our behaviour is natural and therefore universal. However, let us remember, that China did dominate economically and technologically from 1100 to 1800 and it did not act imperialistically. Unlike the West China did not rely on military force to gain favourable trade agreements. China believed then, as it does now, that its greatest strengths… Read more »

The Dynast Queen
The Dynast Queen
8 months ago

Basically it seems Sagaar likes for the US to have a hold on the world because he doesn't have to face the brutality of that control but with China gaining power he might have to because he's not Chinese so it's bad.

Why he doesn't connect that dot to people who aren't American I don't know.

Marla DeLioncourt
Marla DeLioncourt
8 months ago

Saagar: Only OUR Capitalists deserve to be top dogs in the world, NO FAIR CHINA! Wah-wah…

But I still respect him for speaking in good faith, he has a kid's brain in politics, but at least it's not a mean spirited kid's brain, I can at the very least respect him for that. Also props to TMBS for having guests like him as well.

Edit: No, actually I can respect him for more than that. Great discussion guys!

Libertarian Stalinist
Libertarian Stalinist
8 months ago

China bad.

Did you know, China bad?

I am so brave to stand up to China.

helBob haramburg
helBob haramburg
8 months ago

Great conversation!

thejam800
thejam800
8 months ago

Some of you might find this interesting:



Its Yanis Varoufakis, a left econimist, on china and global capitalism. If you are interested in international politics, Varoufakis has great stuff on Europe and the Euro.

Simon Sozzi
Simon Sozzi
8 months ago

Exactly! That's the whole point. China and any country can turn around and point the finger at us and our hypocrisy!

Simon Sozzi
Simon Sozzi
8 months ago

I just have to say that I'm so here for this! Saagar is right about corruption and a lot of things but he has this weird overzealous patriotic "America first" bent…even if we have to "Crush" our enemies! 🤦🏻‍♂️Calm down girl! Brooks is the one to set him straight. Smartest guy on the interweb!… after Prof. Wolff🧐👍🏼✌🏼✊🏼💕🌈

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