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Star Trek Deep Space Nine Ruminations S4E23: To The Death



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Cole TV
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Cole TV

i always did like the "do you think we're stupid" dressing down that the jem'hadar leader gave weyoun.

captmoroni
Guest
captmoroni

Weyoun is a snake. You’re going to get bit. By the time you notice, the venom’s already at work.

Infernal460
Guest
Infernal460

I think they succede in their mission, executing your comrad in arms in the mess room with no legal apperatus at all.
Yes to me that's unrelatiable.

Weyoun – Depends on the clone, PR manager/ Admin manager/ Logistics manager/ Fanatic/ Military Commander/ Child.
Yes he is amazing.

The Iconians are also fasinating.

Earl Watt
Guest
Earl Watt

I don't think the Jem'hadar could be it's own "culture" because they are "gestated in birthing chambers" are only male and are militant by genetic code exhibiting superiority over all species except the Founders. The are Klingons on steroids with no female counterpart.

Jef Willemsen
Guest
Jef Willemsen

Great episode with some nice characterization and Dax getting to play "Action Barbie" as Terry Farrell calls it. Interesting observations on the nature of the Jem'Hadar as well: killing them quickly to prevent the wisdom that comes with age only makes sense. Given the fact the Vorta are all clones, can we assume the Jem'Hadar are also replicants of a sort? If so, shouldn't they all look the same? Far as I can tell, all the Jem'Hadar we ever see on the show look different while there's no practical reason for them to be. Also 🙂 If the Founders felt… Read more »

Karl Olson
Guest
Karl Olson

Disposable people….also sounds like Blade Runner where 2049 uses the exact same terminology of "a disposable workforce" to describe the Replicants…

…and it's just as horrible.

Nick Okona
Guest
Nick Okona

I love this episode. It’s one of my favourite of DS9, maybe Trek. Best Jem’Haddar. With the exception of Garan’agar maybe. Toss up.

Eelco de Boer
Guest
Eelco de Boer

Mem-summary: Following a hit and run attack on Deep Space 9 by a band of rogue Jem'Hadar, Sisko and his crew are joined by the Dominion on a mission to locate the rebels who have discovered another Iconian Gateway. (first Weyoun-performance, gets shot! 🙂 )

ifandbut
Guest
ifandbut

The Iconians were one of the best things about the STO story. I was sad to see that arc end.

Snowdrop 65
Guest
Snowdrop 65

Weyoun is the scariest villain of ds9, in my opinion. Mostly because of how clever and tactical he is.

Dean Helton
Guest
Dean Helton

On the Jem'a'dar, I think of them as the ultimate biological weapon. Any real long lasting peace with the Dominion virtually requires them to be eradicated. They are not a real people, their culture is virtually non existent, the Jem'a'dar have no stories, they have after action reports at best. They have no music, no songs. They have no need to eat so no cuisine. They have no history. In STO by all rights there should be another war with the Dominion at some point. Except with what happened…not putting spoilers in this post. Play it yourself if the honored… Read more »

SSecularScholar
Guest
SSecularScholar

So Jem’ha Dar are 40k Orks with the whole the fight is the ends itself.

Film Monk Productions
Guest
Film Monk Productions

I loved the Jem'hadar more after this.

Rasolisu
Guest
Rasolisu

"As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember: victory is life."

Tom Griffiths
Guest
Tom Griffiths

One of the best DS9 episodes. They were shown to be a far more textured villain 🖖

Marcus Hicks
Guest
Marcus Hicks

I think Weyoun knew, & I think he was specifically entrusted with that mission by The Founders.

Marcus Hicks
Guest
Marcus Hicks

There was a great fleshing out of the Iconians in the TNG novel "The Devil's Heart".

Marcus Hicks
Guest
Marcus Hicks

Weyoun is one of my favourite villians 🙂.

Gianne30
Guest
Gianne30

Never really cared for weyoun. I was happy when worf snapped his neck. I was impressed by combs portrayal of him and that’s why I hated him so much a great actor can make you love or hate them in a role depending on the role they play.

John Vonherbert
Guest
John Vonherbert

I enjoy your ruminations of DS9 immensely. Primarily because of the drama of war. Being a combat Marine veteran; I'm blown away by the technical accuracy of the subtle nuance that DS9 displays in their knowledge of "combat". I was a heavy engaged marine combat squad leader. Your analysis of Jem'hardar expendability is 'spot-on'. My "Paris Island" training was similar to "Full Metal Jacket".However, you're always taught that you're expendable. Fortunately, I survived many operations, patrols, ambushes. I was made a squad leader through attrition. Often, I needed 'team leaders' that were, ' combat seasoned' because you can't teach combat… Read more »

Shark Dentures
Guest
Shark Dentures

"It's very Human." – desperately proceeds to explain in a sci-fi review context for clarification.

in the very next sentence includes " . . . it's very Down To Earth."
LOL

kwith
Guest
kwith

The three layers of The Dominion:

Founders – Infiltrate
Vorta – Manipulate
Jem'Hadar – EXTERMINATE!

Jessica Day
Guest
Jessica Day

This episode is classic ds9 for me. To be honest, I barely remember the overall plot and I don't think it matters too much- but the setting development of the Dominion is so good. I remembered all of that with crystal clarity. On DS9, we don't usually get villains of the week. We get multifaceted well developed cultures. I love it. Sure TNG did some of that, further developing the Klingons and Romulans, but it really doesn't match the rich tapestry the ds9 slowly weaves together.

Zuzo's corner
Guest
Zuzo's corner

oh god, he not actually going to cover Star Trek Discracery is he? Because i will never watch those vids.

Scott Trammell
Guest
Scott Trammell

I think Weyoun absolutely knew he was infecting Odo. The Second makes a comment about how the Founders will sit in judgment over him. Weyoun tries to convince Odo to return to the Link, and when Odo refuses, he gives his little “then we have nothing more to discuss” line, and THEN he touches his shoulder to infect him. He absolutely knew what he was doing. I can imagine the Founders even giving all Vorta field supervisors a sample of the virus to infect him with in case they encountered him. And, on another point, I’m also a Brian Thompson… Read more »

Oh God Its Him Run
Guest
Oh God Its Him Run

…How the hell could Iconia have been on a map in Discovery, when the fact that nobody knew 140 years later where to look for it on a map was a major plot point of the episode that introduced the name?

Oh right. Discovery. Made by people who are proud to have never seen Star Trek, for people who are proud to have never seen Star Trek.

Adam Collings
Guest
Adam Collings

16:57 Interesting on the whole sleep thing. I totally get where you're coming from. As a busy person, who doesn't get to devote near enough time to his writing because of the need to earn money through the day job, it would be handy to avoid sleep. But I just can't wish for that. Sleep is one of the great joys of life. It's strange to say, since we're unconscious and so can't enjoy it, but snuggling up in a comfy bed and drifting off brings a lot of emotional comfort. At least it does to me.

Adam Collings
Guest
Adam Collings

Totally agree. Weyoun is awesome and Jeffery Combs is awesome.

Tim Statler
Guest
Tim Statler

This weeks and last weeks DS9 rumination did not show up in my notifications. All your other videos did though.

hancmd16
Guest
hancmd16

The Vorta did not deserve the loyalty of the Jem'Hadar.

JEF_300
Guest
JEF_300

I LOVE Weyoun!

Catzilla
Guest
Catzilla

I think the artificially-limited lifespan is just another means the Founders use to control the Jem'Hadar.
It prevents them from building up enough life experiences to start questioning why they do what they do.

my guy
Guest
my guy

I think they did a good job of making the Jem'hadar seem even worse than before. I understand their culture and why they act they way they do – and it's terrifying. They are tools and they revel in it. That's great.

AlucardNoir
Guest
AlucardNoir

Bah, Weyoun. Shran's where it's at.

Us Man
Guest
Us Man

What tactical and strategy book do you recommend?

phemyda94
Guest
phemyda94

Lore repeatedly in his videos: "I would LOVE not to have to eat or sleep"
Me: What kind of Capricorn bullsh*t???
Can't relate XD

Athrun Zala
Guest
Athrun Zala

Yes, I loved Omet'iklan, he totally helped shape the Jem Hadar!

Meaches Peaches
Guest
Meaches Peaches

I actually like him better as shran…

Pete Watson-Wailes
Guest
Pete Watson-Wailes

On the national level, real people point – the big question this raises for me is, at what point is a person a person. As you mentioned – the whole "Measure of a Man" argument with Data, but that isn't the same here. There's two distinct differences – Data becomes a person over time through droid effect. We never saw (that I can recall) Data or Lore or similar on day 1, with no memories, no experience, nothing but base programming. Are they a person at that point? The Jem'Hadar though are definitively, provably people at the moment they're birthed.… Read more »